More Thoughts on Epic Fantasy
I finished my Monday post, More on Epic Fantasy, with:
“So does a book have to be about large-scale war to qualify as epic fantasy? I don’t believe so, but I do feel its has to encompass, in some way, the grand sweep of events—and large-scale war can serve as convenient shorthand for that.”
In between times, while I’ve been dwelling in the realm of Tuesday Poem (where our first anniversary group composition is about the myth of the Norse god Tyr and the wolf, Fenris—how epic is that?) I have been mulling over this question. Most particularly, I have been trying to think of individual books and/or series that I would categorise as epic fantasy that aren’t about large-scale war. And have actually found the exercise quite, well, exercising, given that my criteria are that, in order to be epic, a story must encompass some or all of:
” … the epic sweep of events, encompassing nations, cultures and the “winds of change sweeping through the corridors of power” [or “world altering” as Ted Cross perhaps better expressed it in his comment on my post]—in whatever way seems appropriate to the context of the story.”
So here’s my “top 3” contenders so far (and yes, I would love to hear your suggestions as well):
Janny Wurts and Raymond E Feist’s Empire trilogy comprising A Daughter of the Empire, Servant of the Empire and Mistress of the Empire. Although there is a large-scale war going on in the background of the first and (I’m pretty sure) second books, this is very much ‘remote backdrop’ and not pertinent to the central story, which is all about the “game of the council” (ie politics and socio-political manipulation and machination within the empire of Tsurani.) But the success of the central character, Mara of the Acoma, and the outcome of her influence on the game of the council is widespread socio-political change in the empire. Coupled with the epic sweep of the trilogy, I feel that definitely places the Empire series in the epic fantasy camp.
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My second pick was Barbara Hambly’s Windrose trilogy: The Silent Tower, The Silicon Mage and Dog Wizard. Once again, the story does not revolve around large-scale war but there is considerable sweep of events in terms of the use and abuse of power, stresses within a society of wizards and witchfinders, and a quest to save not only the world but prevent the death of the universe—I do think that qualifies as fairly epic stuff.
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My third choice is CJ Cherryh’s Chronicles of Morgaine (comprising Gates of Ivrel, Well of Shuian and Fires of Azeroth) in which the sweep of events is definitely epic and the heroine effectively a “half-elf” (in type, that is not how she is styled in the book) with a highly destructive sword (Changeling) on a quest to save the universe by destroying the time-traveling gates that will otherwise unravel it. While I concede that the premise of the story is fundamentally science fiction, the action is primarily psychological and ethical, and both the culture of the story and the technologies of the worlds Morgaine visits (in order to destroy their gates) are all low tech and quasi-medieval. So I always think of Morgaine as epic fantasy—and I understand the author does, too, so I’m going to stick with that.
So what do you think: do you agree that my 3 picks qualify as examples of epic fantasy that don’t involve large-scale war? Disagree? Have a top three of your own? (Just remember that to qualify these fantasies have to be epic in scope, as above, and not about large-scale war.)
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If you enjoyed this post, you can also read:
I will have to check those out!
So far, Patrick Rothfuss’s Kingkiller Chronicles are epic fantasy without large scale war. I would also argue for Robin Hobb’s Farseer Trilogy or sextology (I think there are 2 series of 3 books, though I would consider the Bingtown Trader series as a part of it as well – so really 3 series of 3? A nineolgy? :-)) I should think of another but my brain has already gone to bed.
Ah yes, I should have thought of Rothfuss myself (although I haven’t read the second book yet.) I did think about the Farseer series, but I have only read the first trilogy and the ‘Forge” war was a strong part of that book so I hesitated. I definitely think the Liveship traders trilogy qualifies though, because although there is a war in the third book it’s not large scale or what the main arc of the series is about. Great choices! :).
Oh! Just thought of my third & fourth – that would be the Curse of the Chalion and The Sharing Knife series by Lois McMaster Bujold. Now I am off to bed!
And yes again to The Curse of Chalion although what about The Paladin of Souls? Another sequel I haven’t read yet!) Am adding “The Sharing Knife” series to the list …
I’m loving this series of posts, Helen. Yes I do think fantasy can be epic without dwelling on wars. Epic in scope, involving worlds, the fate of many.
Thank you, Mary! You know, I did think about your “Chronicles of the Tree” series, but obviously I don’t know how events will unfold in the forthcoming (and final) book, Oracles Fire, so am cautious on that score–and also the conflict between the Argosians and the Nurians is central to the arc of both Tymon’s Flight and Samiha’s Song, but is it “large-scale?” It’s definitely affecting a fair amount of the Tree ‘verse at present … Your thoughts?
Aha, you want spoilers? 😉 All I will say is that actually, this question is central to ‘Oracle’s Fire’. Is war important?
I’d call COT epic fantasy. Sure, it has subtle twists of steampunk and science fiction, but the heart of the matter is epic. Worlds are changed.
No, no, we shall have no spoilers! I agree that “Chrocnicles of the Tree” is epic fantasy simply because of that sweep of events—and also because it asks big questions, an angle that I had not reflected on specifically until now. Now there’s a thought—can it still be “epic” if the scope is small but the questions/matters being addressed are large? I can see that the process of “mulling over” needs to continue …
I think so! I think ‘epic’ is all about approach. And I do think the ‘big questions’ play a part in that.
I know you didn’t hold up the Earthsea trilogy as pure epic fantasy, but UKL does address some of those questions and answer them breathtakingly well – ie., ‘what is evil’? Or, ‘why do innocent people suffer?’ and so on. (And of course by ‘answer’, I mean ‘address the problem’, because one of the joys of UKL is that she refuses to give easy, pat answers, and instead grapples with issues through story until there is a resolution.)
Well, I don’t think the Earthsea books, as discussed on Monday, are epic, but I do think that Le Guin is a fabulous writer and addresses big questions in a very elegant and compelling way. She captures the “what if” and the “wonder” that are such important elements of all fantasy, but also of SFF—The Left Hand of Darkness blew me away when I first read it and still does.
Simon suggested the Chronicles of Amber series by Roger Zelanzy to the “epic fantasy but not involving large-scale war”.
June, I must (guiltily!) confess that I have not yet read any of Roger Zelanzy’s books but people keep mentioning them so I can see that I really need to—so little time, so many great books!:)
Hi June,
I have read a few of these, and I am not sure that I would describe them as Epic – although I am in two minds. To my mind the fact that the stories really focus on the doings of a single (very unusual) set of siblings is one thing that would argue against the epic tag. Also the whole concept of most worlds being shadow realms – not quite real would argue against this in my view.
Cheers
Andrew
So is there a fantasy tag, aside from “epic”, that you feel fits better, Andrew?
I would describe the Amber books (those that I have read) as more High Fantasy (in the tradition of Dunsany) than epic.
The sweep of events in the Amber sequence and something like the King of Elflands Daughter has elements of “large scale” but the motivations are all personal, and most of the action that occurs is only really real in the ways it causes the charcters to respond and reflect – rather than being what the story is actually about.
Wow, you guys are really giving me stuff to think about here: is epic also about the big questions? (Mary V’s the nature of good and evil; struggle and suffering etc.) And now epic vs high fantasy and are the two really different … Just thinking about the Martin/Erikson focus on gritty-epic over the past decade or so, maybe they are …
This is a great discussion! Thank you Helen.
Yes to Paladin of Souls – a great book as well. Go Ista! Hallowed Hunt is also in the same ‘universe’ but it is a very different story than the other two, and I wasn’t so taken with it. Maybe I should go back an re-read.
Ista does sound interesting and a friend has the book so I’ll be reading it soon. Several reviews have been less taken with “The Hallowed Hunt” as well, so perhaps it’s not just you …
I am glad you are enjoying the discussion–I am, too, rather a lot.:)